The Circular Economy: Recycling Visionary Rick Perez

Eva: Welcome to the Beyond Capital Podcast. In our purpose driven world, leadership is increasingly crucial. Now more than ever, shareholders are demanding the integration of social values and causes in everything, from shoes to soap to investments. We're bringing you the stories of leaders that are marrying profit with purpose. I'm Eva Yazhari, CEO of Beyond Capital. Ed: And I'm Ed Stevens, CEO of Preciate. Eva: And this is the Beyond Capital Podcast. Ed: Today's guest is Rick Perez, the CEO of Avangard Innovative. Avangard Innovative is one of the largest recycling and waste managers in the United States. They help companies optimize and monetize their hidden green assets through corporate recycling and waste programs. Rick is a Mexican American entrepreneur who has worked in sustainable waste management for 30 years. Rick was featured in Real Leaders magazine, list of immigrants that helped change the world and has won the EY Entrepreneur of the Year award. Eva: Welcome, Rick. Thank you for being here with us today. Rick: Well, thank you for having me. It's an honor and a pleasure to be here. Eva: So let's dive in. You founded Avangard 30 years ago. Rick: That is correct. Eva: You were probably ahead of your time when it came to recycling then. Can you tell us a little bit about what motivated you to start the company, and where the recycling industry was when you started it? Rick: Yeah, absolutely. So first and foremost, I wish I could tell you when I was a 22-year-old kid going to college that I had figured this all out. But the reality that's not really the case. You know, I was very intrigued by what was happening in the primarily in the PT business, which is the Coke bottles back then. Nobody even knew what a PT bottle was. But you talk about soft drink bottles, and it really started in Mexico. There was a major issue with the bottles that were going into a landfill. They were thick. I don't know. Most of you guys remember the old days use of deposit bottle. Well, that deposit bottle, they were so thick, they couldn't put them in the landfill anymore. So what we did, and I looked at the opportunity to figure out a way to capture that and really finding a way to do that. My father at the time - it was before NAFTA - and so he distributed a lot of these products. And I had these data books - I don't know if you read these at the Tom and Registers books, and I kept looking for opportunities where to place it, and I got lucky. I went down to Mexico. Talked to Coke and Pepsi, said, I think I have a solution and I started to create. That's where I started the company and focus on bringing the solutions up to them and selling it to the carpet industry. And that's really where we started. In fact, in those days, recycling was the last thing anybody ever talked, right. If you're not a doctor or an attorney or something else, you know, you didn't get a whole lot of time, but obviously where we are today, sustainability and where the initiatives are social responsibility today has completely changed. So, yeah, it's really a wonderful journey, a phone and a fax of $1000 at my parent's house, in Katy, Texas, so I can't complain. Ed: You were a visionary. Can't deny it. Rick: Thank you, I'll take visionary, but I want to take a little bit of luck, right? I think that you create a little bit of your vision. You have to have some vision but you have to have some luck along the way, and also have great people around you to be able to get where we are now. Eva: So let's take a step back, Rick You've talked about previously the zero-waste economy. How does your company which I know you refer to from time to time as AI of Avangard Innovative, contribute to this zero-waste economy? Rick: Well, that's a great question. Here's what we do. So what we realized, when I first started this, we were just thinking about capturing material, right? It was about how do we capture the recyclables that were easy to find? And that's where we created a program called Natura, for nature and that it could work in the U.S. and in Latin America. So we're in 11 countries now, so we wanted something that would resonate with everybody. But the reality is that we went to the Natura Zero. And that was about waste diversion, right? How do we figure out a way to make sure they didn't go to the landfill? And so that was our second step. And the third step is the Natura Zero 2.0. And 2.0 really what changes is really, you know, I hate to use the word disruptor, but it is. And what happens? We're using technology to make sure that you can capture and buying, um, everything that was going to a landfill. We're able to take it out that could be captured and recycled and making sure we monetize it. So it's really an easy way to think about the technology we call it, sustayn. And sustayn, what we do is is the Fitbit for the waste and recycling. So think about putting devices like the compact or bailor in a scale. And we checked the wellness of the back of a store. So you're talking of big national accounts that have thousands of locations, the last thing anybody looks at is a dumpster. So what we do, we use data analytics, and we use artificial intelligence to recognize what is in the dumpster every time something goes in there, we know the weight, and we also know what time it gets pulled, when it gets serviced and when they right size it. So what happens is if you really want to make sure you're waste diversion, you have to know what's inside going into it first. And really, that's what nobody ever could see. And then with technology and with data scientists, we create models to pull that back out. We have an optimization team that goes, trains, and implements the whole flow process to capture and monetize it. So that means we make money from it, we will reduce your waste cost, and that's what we get. Ed: So are the dumpsters on a scale, a supersensitive scale? [0:06:39] Rick: Well, most dumpsters, if you look at equipment used in the waste management business or we call it dumb equipped, right. There is no scale that's put onto those things. So we use sensors. These are different types of sensors, depending what we're trying to measure. But we sensor fullness, we sensor pressure, and we also sensor weight. So it depends on the type of container and compactor that it is. We have the right logistics that create that. But the key of our secret sauce is really doing this surgery, because data without execution is worthless, right? So you can, a lot of people can see data, but you don't visualize it. Say it's full. My question was always, so you know it's full, what's it full of, and if you can't really see what's inside of it, we have basically face recognition software that tells us what's inside of that dumpster. And now we can identify the cardboard or plastic, the movement of the metal or any other impurities that we want to look for, that we can capture and monetize. So primarily recyclables, right? That's what we're looking for, is how do we monetize and take all that out of the waste stream, into the revenue stream. So where wee forget sometimes that waste is a cost, and recycling is a revenue. In most companies, the way they do, they use recycling - and they call it a rebate -to lower waste cost. And that's where we get lost in translation, right? But we always say we can manage it, you can visualize it, then you can manage it and make change right, and that's really what we're trying to do. Ed: Turning trash into cash! Rick: Correct, and we call it finding your hidden green assets. When companies look at waste, they always forget that it's such a huge cost. But it gets lost in the transition. It's part of your CNA, well, every time I roll out a store, see what it’s gonna cost me and nobody really puts the efficiencies in the back of the store. But if you think about how the waste management system works in general, there's a great company that had a great purpose and their wonderful what they do, and they know they serve exactly what you need them for. But our whole idea is not to change the waste model. We just sort of make it efficient, that's it. And by creating that efficiency, you're also doing everything environmentally correct. And the companies make a lot more money, like pulling it out of the trash and monetizing, right. And for us it's all about circular economy. So we took it even further. So now we take it into our plants here in Houston. We're building another one in Mexico, another one in Nevada, and what we're doing with that is we're converting that plastic film packaging, which is recycled less than 10%, it's the fastest growing resin produced in the world, and single stream recycling cannot take it. And the reason they can't take it is that that gets stuck in all their conveyor belts, in all of their every roll screens. So the last thing, that's why they don't go there. It's not that they don't want it, it's just the way they're set up. They're very good for rigids, paper, cardboard movements, and there's a big cost to that. So what we do is we go before that happens. We capture it. We bring it to our facility that we call it Natura PCR. And we're turning that to a very high value, high quality film grade again, that stepped into high end products. So that way, the brand owners are putting it in, you know, look at circular economy, as end of life products. Take the pellet goes right back into high-grade products back into the shelf right, back to the consumer, and we do start the collection process all over again. And that's what we're really thinking about. So our company is 100% focused on circular economy and how to drive that, end of life product, bringing it back, make it into a product and put it right back into the shelf so consumer sees that our customers really aware of the environmental and social impact that they need to drive. By the way, for them it's very economical, it's great for them as branding and also on top of the other, making more money. It's great all around. Eva: What would an example of a product that kind of lives in that life cycle be to give a more kind of concrete picture? Rick: Absolutely. So let's think about it and the texture of something that we can all relate. We all buy soft drinks or beer or some product like that. The six pack rings that you think about. And, uh, you think about the six pack rings are plastic. Obviously, that's something that's been publicized as a negative thing into the ocean and with whales, and so on. The reality, now, what we're doing is we're creating a big program to take all that back, comes back into our system. Regenerating with uses 70% less energy and conversion costs to put it back into the system. And now it's going back with recycled content back introducing the six pack rings, which are called imperial rings, that goes back into the shelves back, to the consumer, and we've taken a roll back. So the key is capturing. We have the solution to process it, to get it right back into a product that goes back to consumer, the consumer brings it right back to a store. But we bring it into post-consumer resin, put it into the high-quality grade again, and consumer sees it. So that's one of the big parts you'll see out soon, all over the world. Ed: So are you, primarily, just sort of paying these locations to take the material away? And then it sort of your business what you do with it, or is there, like a revenue share component with them? Rick: Well, I mean, I think there's very different - Every corporation has a different way to manage their recycling. And sometimes, you know, the hard thing is to go inside, we're gonna see, explain to them, this is a continuing like product development, right. It's circular economy is not something that you do one time, so it's not a widget cell. You can't go into a company and say this is what you need to do and recycle correctly because the next day that employee moved or the executive that was running the program has gone... So the way we do it from a strategy is how do we align ourselves with the environmental partners who we call our customers, and making sure that continually we're working to the process to how do we get more efficient. Now, some models are revenue sharing, right. We realign ourselves so as they reduce cost we make money that way. So we're always incentivized. The less waste is generated that goes into a landfill, we're incentivized by that, and also by increasing the recyclables where we're incentivized by that. And so purely, we align ourselves with the environmental partners and if that's what they want. They want to capture more and sell more, and then they obviously want to lower their waste cost with, obviously, the fact that the customer excellence. And that's how we kind of look at our financial model. Ed: Uhm. Thanks.

Eva: So, we know that effective waste management is challenging and often for municipalities, occupies sometimes upward of 50% of their budgets. We've also seen plastic bag bans in many major cities, even in developing countries. And when looking at these trends, don't you think it would be better to convince governments and companies that recycling and the circular economy zero-waste approach is more effective than perhaps banning a product that we're all used to using on a daily basis? Rick: Absolutely. I think what happens is you know, any time there is an issue environmental, we want to pivot so fast and fix without really understanding it, right? And if you look at you know we are a provider of solutions. So, for whatever environmental needs, our environmental partner requires, whether they go paper, plastic, aluminum, metal, it doesn't matter to us. But we do know things, right. In 30 years of experience, we know that plastic is a consumers, it's a product that is very convenient and brings a lot of value to us from a cost structure. But also the problem has been is that we have not seen the infrastructure to capture it all. There's always a hole for it, and it's all about how to be segregate it correctly. Where do we catch it? So, I think one of the main things that happening when we throw in we've done these biodegradable plastics. But what I just happened by preparing biodegradable plastics in the recycling streams. You can't recycle that. So, everybody thinks that's a good thing. It really is a bad thing because it contaminates the stream. So how do we sort that out now? Right and now it has to go to a landfill versus going to a circular economy plot, right? And then banning plastic if you look at the impact and you know I'm not a scientist, but I've seen a lot of studies. What is impacting the environment we've seen because we can see something. That's why it's easy to criticize and to do that. But it also you think about it. If you can see it, that also means we can pick it up. So, what we don't see is chemicals and other components that are that aren't getting into this, the micro, you know, situations that we are not seeing. So, I always believed if you can see something, you can fix it. So, we know it's not the plastic itself, right. The plastic is not the problem. It's the fact that we as society are not capturing and we're allowing that to happen. So, we need some government agencies to help with that? Do we need, you know, social awareness, do we need corporations to help in. It takes a whole village to fix this problem. But the answer to say that we're gonna get rid of all the plastics... I think that that's not the right thing to say or do. That's just my opinion. Eva: Let's shift gears a little bit. Um, you have said that your background as an immigrant was a competitive advantage to you and in business. Talk a little bit more about that. Rick: Well, the reason I think that, you know, obviously I was you know, I think the United States is the best country in the world, it's given me all these opportunities. So for me, when I was brought here, uh, you know, when I was eight years old to United States, you know, my dad gave me the biggest gift, and when I say that, the immigrant, I go back to countries and we are operate in 11 different countries and you see that sometimes the development, it's not there. So, I look at the inefficiencies of a country and the efficiencies of a country. Third world countries have a tendency to be more resourceful. Why? Because the economic structure is not there, right so that they're more used to fixing things or making finding a way to make money out of something, to create that value. So, if you look at when you go down to Mexico, we will see they'll never see an aluminum can right. Plastic is getting recycled more, and the reason is because you're using manpower. But that's not very efficient in the United States because it costs too much to do that. So, you know, you try to find a way in a balance, to learn from the other countries, and what that's helped me is to learn from a different approach. How we should do it, what you shouldn't do, and how do we create that ecosystem and figure out a way to create better practices within all our 11 countries that work better. And it's really interesting, so that’s... But I took an approach from, when I say that, from an immigrant's from, because, you know, you learn from a young boy to become resourceful, and that also has created that hungriness to fix problems and find a way. That's my line, it's "find a way to win" right? And that’s, that's my mentality and that's how I was brought up.

Ed: Rick, how many people do you have in your company? Rick: So, we have over 750 employees now. We sold a couple of companies out and we added over 2,000 employees at one time. So, yeah, it's been interesting, because now you, the way I look at it is their families depend on the structure and organization. So you know, that has been that one of my favorite things, too, that I could look back and say, you know, we really have a good supporting, good team and that’s best thing for families, that are all focused on recycling and good things. So, I sleep well at night, knowing that when you wake up in the morning, people are happy and have a job and they have a purpose. So, when people come to this organization, they know our focus is the environment, and how do we solve an issue. And every day is about not going to landfills, capturing and monetizing it. So, I think it's, you know, I'm very proud of that. Ed: And do you find differences in cultural differences with respect to your purpose or your mission in these different 11 countries? Or 13 you said. You know, and and how do you keep them all on track? I would, just off the tip of my head, think some of them must be less sensitive than others. But maybe they're not. Can you shed some light on the cultural differences and your mission and how you manage that and think about it? [0:20:26] Rick: Absolutely. Well, diversity, obviously. We're probably most diverse company I know, right? So if you look at our corporate office, we have, you know, obviously we trade products with China, to the Spanish and English, and you listen to all these languages happening in our organization. The key is, how do you mesh our core values, which is fresh. We create this core values, failure's not an option until you fail. We recently changed it to "find a way" cause it's a better one. But it's about challenging yourself to continue to do that right? Relationships embrace change. Shoot it straight and have fun, and that's our core business. And so first and foremost is, how do you embed that as part of your conversation on the daily basis and the ability to have your employees? I report down, my top executives report down. So it's all about reporting down, not up, in creating that culture because at the end of the day, sometimes companies have it a little backwards and you think you're on top, although then you get reported to, and you know, no I report down to make sure that that second level has all the tools and the necessary things to do that. And so we try to continue to do that down the line in all the countries, and then we understand the limitations in certain countries. But that's also sometimes our opportunities. So, we learn, and we always try to create these cross matching and integration of technologies and talks within the countries. So we have huddles - we call them huddles - and they're 15 minutes every single day and standing up, and we talk about victories, rocks and goal of the day, and that's how we kind of approach that we can learn from everybody. Eva: So, I imagine that the way people, consumers, companies have approached waste in the past is different than now. Since you launched the business, have you observed changes in the way that we either waste, throw away more, um, or different types of waste? And also, how has your company adapted to that? Rick: Great question. Well, I can tell you when we first started, you know, waste and recycling was never a topic that was brought up. It was just like in a corporate. There was never a big issue. Now, if you look at now, how many companies have you know, a sustainability mission and strategy? Not only that, they have sustainability directors, they have a whole sustainability team. Now you have companies that have circular economy teams, which is something that, you know, if you look at education, what's gonna go is where do you get an engineer that has information about circular economy? There is not a degree. So, I think part of where we're also going is where do you get this talent. Because right now you gotta create, cultivate your own engineering and piecemeal and solutions, and companies today are really focusing on that. So, if you look at a CEO of a Fortune 500, now sustainability reports to CEO, I mean, where would that ever happen? So, I think the whole pressure on the society that we need to do the right things, the generation, the millennials, they realize that the environment is very important and the responsibility to do the right thing. And I think corporations have figured out look, I mean, we could do the right thing. We can make great products. Now, what's also happening is there's technology there. There's the ability to do this. So, you know, sometimes it's not people who don’t want to do it. There were not the tools for technology to try that. Now we do! So when we built the company to create the largest, most consumer resin plant in the world in Mexico to convert it over - back then, everybody thought, there's no way we could do it, and make it commercially viable. It's still the largest plant in the world, producing its own via by Group Arca, Coca Cola in Mexico and some other partners. And they, they're putting recycled confident on bottles every single day. Now we don't do the same thing with post-consumer resin with Hem. We talked about Natura PCR so that's an evolution of technology. But I could tell you, four years or five years ago, we could not change that at a high-volume, high production ,without the technology's there are today. So that's really where the evolution is. It's like I said it takes corporation, it takes retail. And I think, really the future of true sustainability, it has to start, since the polymer gets this design, the base product of how are we gonna create it, work through this whole supply chain. So, whoever's gonna convert it, whoever is gonna make the product. So if the generations of polymer, the whoever's gonna convert and make a product, the brand owner, what color and shapes and where it's going to go, and then end of life companies like us, how are we gonna take it when you finish the product? So that's kind of where you think about from a product development side. Everybody has to be on the table. So we all know, look, do what you need to do with it. But how we gonna capture it, what are we gonna make out of it so we can put it right back into circular economy and help the environment? And you got everybody makes money. That's really that the true sustainability that I think that's where it's gonna go. [0:26:00] Ed: Rick, that's fascinating. I was just thinking about my, uh, young adult children who are Gen Z-ers. And every time we have these conversations, you know, a lot of the things that they've said and, you know, brought to my attention come to my mind and one that I just love to hear about, which may be a little bit off topic. But, um, you know, there's a kind of big news now that China is not accepting recyclables anymore, um, or something like that. And, so now I think one of my kids said that there's no point in recycling because it's just gonna go in the garbage because actually, the recycling programs have all been kind of upended by this shift with with our relationship with China. I just wonder being such an expert in the field, if you could shed a little bit of light on that, that I can take it back to my kids. Rick: Absolutely. You know, it’s sad, but it's true, the way the real mystery, you know, like where they tell you, don't always read or don't always believe everything you read on the Internet. Yes, the answer is China, because of the trade issues that we're having decided to shut that down, India did the same thing. So, what's gonna happen to commodity pricing? It's just supply and demand. It goes down. It's just a natural supply and demand curve that's happening today. That doesn't mean that in the United States and surrounding countries, we don't have the outlets or the demand for the product. So, when the people say there is no recycling, that's absolutely not true. Every product that could get captured should be recycled and does so properly. And let's go to the bottom line: money. At the end of day, why would you do that? The other option. If you don't capture, you may not be making as much money as a company or when you're doing it recycling and neither curb side. But at the end of the day if you look at it. The other alternative is charging to put in a landfill, and that costs money. So even if you give it away for zero, you're taking away your cost. So yes, prices may go down, up and down, but they will always be recycled. Now, is there some companies that might put it into the landfill? They're not supposed to they need to recycle it. They might say, well, my cost if I can charge for it, where cities, and gonna pay me anyways, it's better for me to put in the landfill because I get paid for how much I put into the landfill versus if I sell recyclables in the open market. Right? But that's a different model. The curb side model and the B2B model are completely different, and that's that. There has to be a watchdog to say, look, if I've paid you millions of dollars to recycle, it's a curbside. You need to make sure it gets recycled and goes right to the right products. But the answer again is every product that can be recycled right now has potential. It's just like we've got a gasoline, you're gonna buy the gasoline where it's $3 or $2. You need the gasoline to move your car, and that’s it. And the necessity for recyclables and especially with the movement on the circular economy. There's a demand for it.

Ed: Cool. Thank you. Appreciate that. It makes me feel better. Rick: Yes. recycling is a life, and it's continuing to grow. And I think, you know, if you look as products come out, more and more packaging is a convenience. The answer is, how do we capture that more? And how do we make products that's gonna help the environment? And that's really looking from when you start from natural resources, versus starting from a recycled carpet. I mean, you're saving a huge amount of water, energy conversion costs, CO2 pollution. It's unbelievable because you're so far ahead of the game, and by the way, you're still, as the economy grows, you're still gonna need the raw material cost growth. But you're gonna blend it in right? So I think it's a win all around. Eva: You know, I was really struck by the data and analysis and visualization techniques that you use to convince your customers that recycling is worthwhile. And that's because when I, you know, put a plastic bottle in the trash recycling can, or the recycling receptacle, I don't think about anything after that. Ah, and so I'd love for you to dive a little deeper for us here into perhaps the ah-ha moments or the moment that you realized that the data and the visualization would be a winning approach for your company. Rick: Well, I think the ah-ha moment, or I think, where consumers can see that it's actually happening. So, one of the things you just talked about, the transparency, people assume or they say they don't understand. So, let me give you a perfect example. If you look at your current soft drink bottles all around, okay, plastic. Most people look at it and it's a clear bottle, right? But most of those bottles already have post-consumer resin. The problem as a consumer, you know, you can't tell the difference with one that has it, and the other one that doesn't. So, there is no ah-ha moment for the consumer that things are doing the right thing. So let's take, for example, we had a customer. We told them, Hey, look, let's change your mindset. Leave some of the the green color bottles and blue color bottles into the street. What that's going to do for you, is it's going to create a light tent bottle. Now I don't know if you're a consumer, would obviously see that and say this is actually made with recycled content. We can visually see that, right? Well, obviously they didn't want to do it for brand recognition. Two years later, they let him do that. Now it's one of their hottest selling bottles right in their drink. It's a water bottle, but you know that it's green and it's you know, that it was making that content. So, for us, it's not only we don't talk about, we're just not talking about recycling or the circular economy, and I would put it back to you. And how do we optimize. We look at ourselves as also in the product development stage. So most, we have now customers or brand owners that're gonna produce products they'll ask us if that could be recycled. Now this is a beautiful thing that did not happen before. So, the awareness of putting something into the street, whether it's a color, whether it's a - I don't want to get technical, but imagine if they put these additives, so plastic. The beauty about some of the plastic is you can put, like, UV rays coating, or for all kinds of things, for strength, all kinds of things. You can just add stuff to it. But if you coat through that with the nylons and mixing in with all that, you can't recycle. But if you do it in multi-layers, we could recycle that by separation of density, by separation of water. And no, that's how we use it. So, there's a lot of things we can do in the recycling world. We just have to know about it, and we say Look, this is what will happen in the street, and that is really where things have kind of evolved for us, a dramatic away to to do that. So, it that's the ah-ha moment for me. I'm noticing that big companies have made a conscientious effort, and now it's as a consumer, we're talking in your Podcast today and you guys about this, right? So the awareness is getting out there. I think society wants it, but we are all confused what can be recycled, can't be recycled. So, one of the many things we gotta simplify that model, that everything that could be recyclable should be able to be sorted into two or three bin and that's it. So that's where I think the next generation, and we're gonna get a really good event educating and it can be done. Every single city or location is different, right? We gotta standardize the process. So, throughout the country it's the same format the same way, right? Right now, if you look at it, when I first started into the business, we didn't have a numbering system. Now there's every product we make. Those here's one, two three, four or right, and that tells you what it is. So there's a certain way that we can do this, and I think that's where I think it's going. And I'm really excited about the future of circular economy and the thought process behind. Ed: I'm excited about that, too, because I'm personally stressed sometimes, when I'm like at a public venue and I'm holding my, you know, wrapper and my drink, you know, in my hand, ready to throw it away. And there's like, there's the recycling, there's the composting and then there's the trash. Hey, I don't know which one should go in which one? And I feel like, Oh, now I'm gonna make exactly the wrong decision. And that's even worse. Probably because now I'm gonna screw up like the recycling machine. Or now I'm gonna make it more expensive. So, yeah, I appreciate it when they have the pictures on the trash cans, but definitely education. I think the younger generation is a little bit more in tune to it than. But I have a friend to whom, inside of his house, his wife and his two teenage daughters, are always criticizing him and have been literally in front of the trash can looking around and saying, Can you tell me which one to put this in? Because I'm afraid to make the wrong decision. So yeah, it's obviously going the right direction if there's that level of awareness. But, um, you know anything we can do to help people. Um, I think at the consumer level would be really valuable. [0:36:05] Rick: Absolutely. And I think it's, you know, like you said, when it gets a little tricky, people say you can't recycle the pizza boxes or you can't recycle the glass or you can't recycle freezer bags or you can't recycle certain things right? So it's the awareness and understanding that, and also if you're making product that goes back then in the product when you're creating and developing a product, make it so simple that we can say all plastics are all that you know. And that's a simplicity where we have to go. One of the big things we do with our customers, if you look at the evolution of, even from that soft drink bottle. Again, I'm just sticking it out because that's the thing that's evolved the most. Originally, the caps were made with a contaminant. So, your main bottle is PT. The cap on top used to be made out of PVC. The problem with that one was, you could not sort that out because they had the same density. So now just by changing just the cap to a poly propalyne cap, you could sort it out in water, so there's no issues with recycling. So now you can recycle everything here. So, the label now is probably most in terms of polyethylene based labeled. They won't go with the cap, but probably broke whatever you decide. But it will go with the cap. Now you can recycle 100% of that bottle, and it doesn't create any conflicts. So now when you're looking at when you're buying packaging and as an organization, all you have to standardize the same top of, ah plastic or polymer, then you want in your packaging. If it's easier said than done because you're of grocery store, you know, you have so many suppliers, products, So how do we standardize that? And I said, so there's some work to be done, but there's conversations that are happening, but there's actually action being done. So that's what I like is I've heard a lot of times people do a lot of talking, but I always say there's no execution on it, it's just talk, and I can only say that with a lot of our environmental partners that really have learned that they listen to us and they have taken this into awareness. And you see, the change in such a small change makes a huge difference for us from a cost structure and the ability to to make it in processing the right. And we don't have that many yield loss, And how do we get into instead of segregating? It's not actually make a good product out of it, and it's been a really good progress on this area.

Eva: Rick. In addition to your major contribution to the circular economy of Avangard Innovative also has a foundation. Can you tell us a little bit about what that foundation is focused on and the mission?

Rick: Yes, the 3E Foundation is a foundation that we created for environment, education and empowerment. The main focus on that is, what we're trying to create is, part of the solution that we have seen, especially in other countries, is a computer. If you look at out-of-date computers, we are an R2 certified company, but our deal is not about the recycling. That's much of that. But we would like that what we're trying to do is create, you know, as people get rid of the old computers - there's nothing wrong with the computer, they're just not as fast. And they need maybe some cleaning up or something like that. So what we're trying to do is work with the computer companies and the systems companies to upgrade to make them a little faster and better and donate that back to needy kids and maybe for a Professor to get him a better one and to educate it. And the way I like to describe that, is to be able to provide the windows to the world to children that they don't have that opportunity. Right now, if you have access to a computer and WiFi, you have access to the world, right? You have access to education, you have access to where you want to be. And I think if you can give a kid that opportunity to see what they could be, they could be, you could be a doctor. You could be a mechanic. You can be whatever you want to be and learn from actually a computer, and those things is something that I, you know I'm very passionate about and something that I want. You know? You know, as my legacy goes out, I want to focus more on the foundation. That's hopefully I exit this one day, you know, I'm still young enough of a passionate about what I do, and it's just kind of hard to manage both. But we really focused on that. I think that's a great place. Anything you know, electronics continue to to be an issue of continued to bring more to it. And you'd be surprised how many children do not have a computer. It's unbelievable. Eva: Yeah, so we like to focus on the fact that emotional connection and meaning and purpose brings a feeling of happiness to one's life. So, before we wrap up, tell us, how does doing good and making money at the same time feel to you? Rick: You know? I'll tell you, I think at the end of the day, that is the best feeling, right? I mean, for me waking up in the morning with the purpose of doing good things. Um, I think, you know, waking up in the morning and be able to get more the opportunity. We could make money, hire more people, be able to create things more from the community and at the same time, saving the environment. I could not to be honest, I'm very lucky and fortunate to be in this position because I couldn't ask for a better job. So, every morning I wake up, I think, and you know, and it's okay to make money out of doing things environmentally, I think. But part of the thing that I look at is saying a sustainable business has to be sustainable. First, you know, economically, environmentally and socially, right. If not, most companies and most emissions will fall out of the way string right, they will not be continuous. And so if not it will fall in the stream of philanthropy. And philanthropy is a wonderful thing, but it's not sustainable every year,right. That's why you know, I'm so, you know, I'm blessed in many ways, but that's the reason I think it's a great thing. When you could make some money, give some back, and then give back to your community and do more. Eva: Rick, thank you so much. As Ed said in the beginning, you were and are and continue to be a visionary, and it's been our absolute pleasure to get to know you and Avangard Innovative's work. Thank you. Rick: No, thank you guys. And I appreciate that your awareness on the circular economy and recycling and where we are today. So, thank you for having me on.

Ed: Thanks Rick and good luck! Rick: Thank you. Eva: Once again, it's clear that a business leader with good intentions can create an impressive social, environmental and ethical impact. There is always a way to put meaning behind the mission of a company, and we can all make a difference. Ed: You've taken the first step by listening to the Beyond Capital Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Don't forget to rate and review. And if you haven't yet, subscribe on your favorite Podcast platform. For more information, go to beyondcapitalpodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter at @EAStevens. Eva: and follow me on Instagram at @ConsciousInvestor. Until next time.