Conscious Leadership: Hooman Yazhari of Beyond Capital

Hooman: More than ever it's blindingly obvious that good leadership is hugely important and hugely effective for the for the positive or the negative. It's thinking about the- especially while being of one's employees And ones customs. I think I was always driven by a desire to be impactful and be helpful...

Eva: Welcome to the Beyond Capital Podcast. In our purpose driven world, leadership is increasingly crucial. Now more than ever, stakeholders are demanding the integration of social values and causes in everything, from shoes to soap to investments. We're bringing you the stories of leaders that are marrying profit with purpose. I'm Eva Yazhari, CEO of Beyond Capital. Ed: And I'm Ed Stevens, CEO of Preciate. Eva: And this is Beyond Capitol Podcast. Ed: Today's guest is Hooman Yazhari. Hooman: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. What a pleasure to be here. Ed: Hooman is the cofounder and chairman of the board at Beyond Capital Fund. He is a CEO with international experience and serves on several boards, including Bristow helicopters and Voyager Aviation. He focuses on extensive change management through the life cycles of distressed companies undergoing transformation. Hooman was previously the CEO of Waypoint, a helicopter leasing business, and served as General Counsel at CHC Helicopter, the world's largest helicopter operator. And he happens to be pretty closely affiliated with our co-host, Eva Yazhari, noticed the connection in the last name? Eva: Welcome. Hooman: I married well. Eva: Welcome Hooman. Hooman: Thank you. Eva: Great to have you on the show. Ed: Yeah. It is amazing to have you here on the Beyond Capitol... Hooman: I'm excited. Ed: ...Studio. Hooman: I'm really excited. Eva: So, Hooman, you're my husband. I get to know you on, ah, very intimate level. But I think what's what's always amazed me, inspired me about you is your global view. And that was largely shaped by an extremely international upbringing. Um, you've led companies in many countries, and you've also lived in many countries, so maybe we'll just kick it off there. We'll get into more personal questions later on. But how did your international experience shape your perspective and your worldview today? Hooman: You know, when you grow up in six or seven different countries and experience various different cultures, people's viewpoints, you see that we all are one united human family. And at the same time, you see that we're a family with a tremendous amount of diversity and richness and differences. Um, I think when you have your eyes open to that diversity, you realize that there's always going to be different perspectives, even on the same set of facts. Um, and you listen and you become flexible and you become adaptable. You're able to deal with, um, various viewpoints and try- trying to be humble and accept them all for the backgrounds that they come emanate from, um, and then when you grow up and you get to serve as a business leader in today's interconnected world, despite the trend's against globalism, I think we'll continue to interconnect and the more that we're aware that this, this global family is, is, is stronger together. The stronger we will be as a society and as a civilization. So, I love the fact that I was able to see all this by the time I was 15. Ed: So, you left, and your family left Iran when you were 14. Hooman: I left Iran when I was seven. Ed: Okay, Okay. Hooman: In 1979 the revolution happened. We're Baháʼí and again as Baháʼí you are educated to believe that the world is, again, one global family. We're all flowers of one garden it's what we were taught in which I fervently believe. But suddenly the political environment changed and from one day having a normal life to the next. We had to pack what we could carry and get out of the country. And we were lucky enough to be able to leave the country, um, and that's when, at seven years old we left and I found myself from one week to the next living in the U.K. Where it was a very, very different country where it got dark at 3 p.m. in the winter and no one obviously spoke my language. And I was the only brown kid in the whole, I think city where we lived. And it was, it was, ah, it was a very interesting awakening, but also as a seven year old, you don't know any different. You kind of think, well, this is life. Eva: So, from the U.K., tell us where you where you lived in your life. Hooman: Well, lived in the U.K. for two years outside of London, in a small town called Harpenden. Then my father spend a year in Greece and we commuted back and forth from the U.K. Then I lived in Tokyo for five years. Ed: Really? Hooman: Yeah. Tokyo was a fantastic place to live as a child. As a little boy in the eighties, it was a very child friendly society with a tremendous amount of safety and therefore freedom for kids. Very gadget and computer and technology oriented, which again drew me as a teenage boy. Ah, and and just a very privileged life in order to be able to have that freedom and that simulation. And then we moved to Belgium. We lived in Brussels for two years where I started high school. I finished high school in the U.K., ah, and then my university education. Then I started my career there. And then I started traveling off my own career and lived in Switzerland for seven years, in Zurich, and then in Los Angeles for four and now in Dallas for three. Ed: See, Dallas is on the list. Eva: It made it.

Hooman: Dallas has a lot of forward momentum. Ed: Yeah, alright. Eva: You know, I have an advantage because I I know you quite well. And, and I know you know what your life goals are. But ever since we have been a couple, for almost 12 years now. We, you have always wanted to be a leader and you've always wanted to run companies. What inspired you to have that goal? Have that vision? Hooman: It's an interesting question. My father was CEO of the pharmaceutical company in Iran, so I don't know whether one aspires to do what one's parents do or did. But that was certainly a first inspiration, and he was always what I would consider a purpose driven leader. He, he always cared for his stakeholders. He cared for his employees. He cared for his suppliers. He cared for his businesses, the whole. It was a pharma company, so he cared for the, the impact that his, his end product was having on the patients. And that was a true inspiration. And then, you know, as you as you grow up, you kind of look at what, what, what is it that you want to do with your life? And I think I was always driven by a desire to be impactful and to be helpful. Um, you have the privilege of being impactful, and being potentially helpful is a leader. You touch so many aspects of so many things in terms of a corporation or your neighbor, your your community or the group of people that you lead. You touch there, lives. You touch their financial well being. You touch there motivation in coming to work, their potential happiness or lack thereof. I just love being able to be helpful and to be able to contribute at night. And I always thought leadership is the way to do it. And I don't like being told what to do, really. So, I think I like telling others what to do. Although that's not my leadership style. Ed: So, So, you came up through, like, legal inside of these companies, basically?

Hooman: I did. I did. And look, I I thought I would study as a lawyer so I could get a broad basis and understanding of how our society and our economy works, and then quickly realized that it's not the lawyers that leave that practice to become business leaders. It's usually, you know, finance people or management consultants or people like this. So, I gravitated towards distressed and turnarounds and restructurings of companies because the lawyers get to contribute a lot in areas where you know your legal rights and obligations are very unclear, and you have to do lots of negotiating and take lots of very difficult decisions in very short spaces of time. So, in that way I was able to work my way up through the legal function towards being a CEO. Eva: Excellent. And you so, you believe in something called the CEO mindset, Which means that you know, leaders can be trained to have a mindset of leadership, and it doesn't only apply to CEOs of large companies, this mindset can also be applied to really anybody in almost any activity, that they are kind of group activity, that leadership, that they take on, including running a household. So, tell us a little bit more about this, the CEO mindset. Hooman: Yeah, and you hit it on the head. It's ah, it's a shorthand form for thinking like a leader, right? And thinking like a leader means having leadership skills, and you don't have to be a CEO to be a leader. You don't have to even lead a team or a small organization to be a leader. We lead ourselves every day. We have family units, we have households. We have small businesses, whatever it is. Um, it's that mindset of leadership and you know, when I was younger, want being fascinated by the quality of good leaders. I always thought, well, what is it that that makes a good leader and our good leaders actually making a difference? Or is everything kind of floating along on a predetermined path? And some people are lucky because the economy pushes their business along and they do really well and commodity prices helped them or whatever, and some people are unlucky. But I think if you look at what's been going on, especially in the world over the last few years, whether it's in the political, whether it's the economic side of our societies, you see that more than ever it's blindingly obvious that good leadership is hugely important and hugely effective for the, you know, for the positive or the negative. Eva: And what are some of the qualities of the CEO mindset? Hooman: You know, I have, ah, whole list of eight or nine traits which I won't go through now, and I think you're publishing a link to an article, which I wrote, which we'll have more details on it, right? But if you think well, what is it that actually makes someone leader. What is it that that a leader should be thinking about doing above all else? I'll start with having a vision. Um, everyone needs a North Star. Every organization, every group of people, every individual need a North Star to see which direction they should be going and what their time and resource should be spent towards achieving. And, and that vision kind of becomes that North Star and whatever a vision is, which I I would espouse the leader should help to form, not dictate to their team but form with their team. The leader's job, I think, is to double that vision, stretch that vision, make it bold, make it something that's inspiring, and then live it, breathe it, communicate it and exemplify how you achieve it so that everyone is facing towards the same direction and marching with enthusiasm and energy and hope to get there. Ed: I always think about vision and leadership. Um, it's not so hard to set a course. I mean, of course, you got to think it through, and then you set one. But when you start, everyone's optimistic because you're like, oh yeah, let's do that. Of course, when you're finishing up and it's worked, then that's not so hard either. But along the way, the hardest part about a vision for my experience has been when it's not so clear that it's working and you have to decide whether or not to stay on that course or change it again. And so I'm just wondering in these turnarounds there must be multiple points where you start off thinking, okay, we're gonna fix this by doing one thing, and then it takes a little longer maybe than you expected. Or there's some additional new information that comes into play. Do you have any insight for us? And how you think about holding course versus changing course at times when people are really looking at you as a leader and, just wondering, should we should we give up on this, or should we keep going? Hooman: It's, it's a really interesting question, and you know, I'll go into some of the other points that I think a leader should be thinking about and espousing, right? So a leader needs to be inspiring, right? So, it's easy to have a vision, and it's pretty easy to be inspired by that vision. For 24, 48 hours, right? And then you realize actually, this is a slog, and you don't know if it's gonna work out. So, a leader needs to keep their team's energy high and their focus, you know, on, on that vision. So, the inspiring part is what I think mitigates the doubt that comes into one's mind when one sitting there after many days of work, not seeing that much progress and questioning oneself. So, there's the inspiration that a leader needs to have the culture that one needs to build the safety that one builds into one's organization so that it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to make mistakes, but feeling that you are in a group that has your back and in a group to which you belong, ah, a leader needs to be adaptable and constantly learning, right? And as you rightly pointed out, you get new pieces of information if you, if you look at any situation macro things that you certainly didn't know we're gonna happen continually happen and certain experiments that you made with resource allocation or, or, oh, or, um, uh, whatever it is that you're changing in business may not turn out the way you, you had hoped so that adaptability is hugely important. But it means that a leader and the team that the leader is responsible for needs to constantly be learning, constantly have an open mindset, constantly feel that they are questioning and they are open minded. And they're able to do the right analysis to, kind of, figure out whether or not you stay the course or you don't. One has to be decisive, uh, and I think one has to stay married to the decision as long as it makes sense to do so. It's very easy to flip flop, especially in times of, of, difficulty, and one has to have the right metrics and measurements in place. So, if you feel like you have the right dashboard and you feel like you are in a position when you can, you know, as Jim Collins puts it in his book shoot, shoot a bullet before you shoot a cannon ball, you can see whether the course that you've set for yourself is working and you can see whether or not the things you thought you should achieve in the short space of time before everything becomes irreversible is working, but the, nothing is a substitute for the hard work and the analysis that one does and having Plan B, Plan D and F, whatever it is, so that you can make sure that if plan A doesn't work, you have backup. So, I don't think there's anything wrong with reversing course or trying a few things at the same time. But it's doing so from a position of being educated and doing so by being inspired and being decisive. Eva: Excellent. And you've also spoken at length about the importance of contributing beyond yourself and what that means for leaders and why it's important for CEOs to think beyond themselves. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Hooman: It's interesting, I think, I think leadership is something that is about everything but the leader. I think, I think a leader should be thinking about their people, the people that lead their employees, their team members, their customers, even their suppliers, right? And as you see our world taking steps towards understanding holistically the impact of business, um, you see that the various stakeholders of a business are being asked by shareholders to be thought about by management whether shareholders are ready to give up any kind of margin so that your suppliers can can can perhaps get a better margin for them or your employees can get better rates. It's coming. It's not 100% there yet, but it's coming. So again when we were talking about what do leaders do, they impact so much. It's, it's thinking about the, especially the well being of one's employees and, and, and one's customers. And I think if a leader is thinking about what's in it for me, ultimately that's not a sustainable way to lead. If a leader is thinking, how can I get the best out of this group of people and teams that I lead? How can I help them succeed? How can I help them be engaged, be inspired, be happy, be well paid, be free from the problems of not having whatever it is health care, access to things that any human being needs to have then actually, the team works like a Swiss watch and the leader looks like an absolute genius. So, it's selfishly important for a leader to serve those that they lead. But ultimately, I think it's the right thing to do morally and just, um uh, logically. Ed: There's an old leadership axiom or technique about the mirror. And when things are going really well in the company, you hold the mirror towards your people. And when things aren't going well, hold the mirror towards yourself. You believe that? Hooman: You know, you have to, right? And it's hard, right? Because look when you lead a team, you're also not going to get get dealt, ah, hand of the perfect team with the smartest, most technically proficient or most engaged people, right? And naturally, a team is gonna have its strengths, its weaknesses. Uh, I think when things go wrong, you have to look at yourself as the leader because yes, if some person was unfit for purpose, they just ultimately couldn't do the task that they were, they were assigned. A leader should know that, right? So, who's fault is it? Is it the person that you assigned the impossible task to? Or is it the leader who just kind of sat there and watched them fail? Ed: Yeah, it's, it's so um, interesting to just kind of think about those changes over time with team members, because every company goes through different life cycles as a guy who's done a lot of startups. What kind of person is really good at the early stage of a startup could be related to high output or maybe a lot of innovation and creativity. But as the company grows, maybe you need somebody who's more interested in tweaking and operating. And so really, even in the course of a year, the absolutely perfect person can turn into the absolute wrong person. Hooman: It's, it's, it's, fascinating, right? Ed: Frustrating too. Hooman: It is, it is, it is, look well, you know, leading, leading human beings that are intricate and, and of every different sort of mindset is can be tremendously frustrating. Even being a parent, leading a five year old could be difficult. Ed: Well... We going to open that topic? Hooman: Um uh, but you have you, you, again, a good leader, kind of, figures out, okay, what's the runway that this person has? Do they need training? So, as you know, they get to the their own glass ceiling we can help them break it. Or do we find another role for them? Or do we kind of say, okay look, your path is is probably going to grow out of this. So, let's think about what you do next and how we make sure it happens. With their head held high. Eva: I'm gonna throw you a curveball.. Ed: Woo! Eva: And ask if you, personally, think that workplaces are set up for females to succeed. Hooman: I don't I don't think they are. Um, I think, look, I haven't been in that many workplaces, right? I've bean in 5, 6, 7 different companies, I've sat on boards. But our society doesn't make it easy for women to succeed. I think, I think there's a variety of issues. I think there's the obvious one off balancing parenthood, which mothers sort of get a much higher burden of than men who, really you can dip in and out, um, and balancing motherhood with professional careers. I used to be a corporate lawyer, and the culture of corporate law is you show up for 16 hours a day, and whenever your client calls you, you answer and you do whatever it is that needed. That could be any time of day or night, if that's not sustainable and realistic, if one wants also nurture a small human being. So, I, I, I think what we've forced women to do, in many instances is the kind of morph into, um, people who can ignore parts of their, little parts of their lives and play the game that society makes them play. I think, I think we're seeing much more flexibility. We're seeing much more people taking pride in balancing their work and life. It used to be when I was younger than if you try to balance your work and life, you were, kind of, a wimp and you had to put in the hours. Now that's not being seen as a wimp. Its actually be seen is acceptable and an,d and the right thing to do. So, I think we're growing towards a more enlightened society where we understand that there's more to it than, than, than work. But socially, um, the statistics, the cultures that we have, the laws that we have, um, don't set women up for success just yet, and it may be lots of other people that have, you know, work life balance issues, um, and it's not just women, but certainly that's the most obvious group to discuss. Eva: Yeah, thanks for your candor. And I just know that you care a lot about diversity and inclusion. Um, and really getting to the heart of those those issues. Hooman: I do. I do. It doesn't make any sense for us as a society to have a talent pool, of which 50% is handcuffed. It just, it's stupid. Eva: Got it. So, let's pivot a little bit and I would love, well, I know what your morning routine looks like, but Ed may be interested to know what your morning routine looks like. Ed: Yeah, I've been wanting to know. It's on my notes right here. Morning routine. How do you get yourself ready to be a great leader? Hooman: It's interesting. Um, I thought you might ask me this. And then there's always the idealized, this is what my perfect morning routine would be. Kind of like that perfect and article that you get in the Financial Times where you're like, there's no way this person does all this in one weekend. Ed: Right. Right. Exactly. Hooman: And there's the realistic one, and mine has changed and evolved all the time. So, I'll tell you what today was, which I thought was absolutely perfect. Um, my, I wake up and our little daughter, whose one year old is already awake and, you know, I'm kind of bleary eyed and she is ready to go. And my five year old son requests when he goes to bed that he gets a wake up call with his sister. So, I pick up my, my, my little one, who is, as I said, ready to go full of joy, full of laughter, full of absolute love and then, kind of, release her into my five year old son's bedroom. You know, it's still dark. He's under the covers. He's gonna hiding his head. He knows we're there. And then he, he pulls the covers down, sees his sister, smiles and gives her a hug and a kiss, and she starts to, kind of, scream and get super excited. Um, we do that. Then he decides he wants to play Legos. So, we play Lego for, you know, five minutes, and I'm just watching my one year old to make sure she doesn't choke. Go down, have my, you know, very, very coveted cup of coffee. Have breakfast with the little ones. And with Eva, I love driving my son to school, so I drive him to school and we'll spend that, I don't know, 12, 13 minute drive, listening to music together and finding new things to listen to on Spotify, um, calling my parents who live in London or just talking, um, and then I come home and go for a walk, and if it's with Eva, we catch up on the day. And if it's alone, I'll listen to something that inspires me, whether it's a Podcast or meditation or something, and then, I'm ready to go. Ed: What kind of music are you listening to right now? Hooman: I listen to everything. I, I grew up, you know, learning classical piano. Ed: Really? Me, too. Hooman: So, yeah, unfortunately not kept it up is an adult, but I have a tremendous left for classical music. My son, until he was old enough to think it's boring, which is when he was four for like two years, loved it. He would, kind of, hum Mozart once in a while, but we listen to jazz. We listen to R&B. We listen to Pop. We listen to Classic Rock. We listen to world music, we listen absolutely everything, and Spotify has this wonderful aggro of them to throw new stuff out at you, which is always intriguing. So, that's, that's, kind of, my listening at the moment. Eva: So, um just getting back to the conversation around leadership. You were my co-founder of Beyond Capitol and we've had the pleasure of getting to know dozens of purpose driven leaders whether we have invested in them or not in the Beyond Capital portfolio. Uh, have you seen examples of conscious leadership through your work as an impact investor. And has that changed your view also of leadership By seeing those examples? Hooman: Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a really good question. The one that comes to mind front and center is Ajeita Shah, who I know you've also had on this Podcast. And when we, um, we're diligencing her company five years ago and when we were talking to her as a leader, um, there was definitely a sense of purpose. But there was a determination to build an infrastructure to distribute solar goods in a part of India that wasn't electrified. So, we back that idea and we backed what we thought was a very competent entrepreneur. And then, I realized later on that there was competence and there was a great idea. But this person was a visionary, and her vision was to empower those that society had, kind of, robbed of their, um, uh, potential. A society where women were not allowed out of the house 10 years ago in many rural villages in India. She has empowered them to be Heads of Sales for decent size businesses, of solar and various other consumer durable goods in villages where they are now important sort of celebrities and and sustaining families with the work that they do and to join them and watch them walk their village with pride and and the, um, uh, the affection, which they have from everybody is just an inspiration. And then it all goes back that to Ajeita being a vision and purpose driven leader who decided that she's going to empower women in this part of India, and she's going to make their lives better by allowing them access to the basics of life that we take for granted here. And that's always, kind of, been the most impactful person in my mind and the most inspiring. But as you say, we come across tremendously inspiring people almost daily. Ed: It must feel bad to turn down inspiring people whose business you don't like. Eva: It's not easy, but we've, we've.... Ed: I don't mean that facetiously. Hooman: No, no. You know where investors, right? We have a fiduciary duty to make every dollar that we allocate be as impactful as we possibly can, balancing that risk with the, with the reward of the financial as well as the social impact. And, um, I feel you always feel bad about saying no to people who are earnest and hard-working and have a dream. But you also can't invest in something that's gonna fall over in six months, right? There, you, you, its just bad for everybody. Ed: Yeah. Eva: And we know that if it's not a real business, the impact also won't scale. So, it's not 100% sustainable.

Ed: Have you ever been really wrong? Like looking back, you passed on a deal, and it's just, like, totally blown up. Great, awesome purpose. Eva: We, yes. Ed: You know, it just happened once or twice. Eva: Yes, we've, we passed on ah, an investment in a company called Qala, which as grown significantly. Ed: Yeah. Every great investor has a story of a couple that got away.

Hooman: The one that got away. Eva: Absolutely. Ed: That's normal's. Eva: It's pretty normal. Hooman: Yes. I take heart in the fact that our portfolio has a pretty decent IRR. And the companies that we have backed have, have all gone from strength to strength. So, um, we're happy. Eva: So, maybe just to wrap up, couple more questions, what are some small changes you think somebody could make to become a better leader outside of the bigger picture elements. Ed: And maybe a story or two? Eva: Yeah. Ed: Associated with that. Like, maybe if you know, someone who made a small change. Hooman: When I was researching the, um, see your mindset talk and article. I came across the life story of Katharine Graham, right? Who was with the great Washington Post owner and editor. Ed: Right. Hooman: Um, she, she was born at a time where women were expected to stay home, and she did, and her father owned the paper. And when he became head of the World Bank, ah, he gave the paper to Katherine and her husband, his son in law, um, giving him 2/3 of the shares and her 1/3 because he thought no man should have to work for his wife, um, then she stayed home and, you know, took care of the domestic side in their social life, until her husband passed away, and then she suddenly ended up being the owner and the operator of, of a pretty important, you know, used paper and pretty important asset. And this her story of how she, um, built her confidence, built her capabilities, surrounded herself with people who could teach, coach, mentor and support her and, you know, turned the Washington Post into, into, into what it became is incredibly inspiring. So, you know, that was a story that I think is, is it worth, um, looking at in more detail? The other story, um, that that I read again in Jim's, Jim Collins book, Great by Choice, was that of, um, Roald Amundsen and Robert Scott, who were two explorers who had a race to the South Pole and one of the teams, the Norwegian team made it there on time and back safely, and the other team made it their 30 days later, and they all perished on the way home. And when you see the leadership styles of, of these two leaders, I think, I think Scott was a what he saw as a natural athlete. He done lots of Arctic exploring. He was good at everything. He took risks. So, he just gathered a crew, showed up with a bunch of snowmobiles and horses, and the snowmobiles froze and the horses died. So, his men had to, uh, carry their gear to the pole and back. And that's like walking from New York to Chicago and back. Um, and Amundsen, from the age of 20 when he had to get a sailing license, for example, instead of ah, sailing from Norway to Spain, he cycled to build himself up. When he knew he was going to spend time in the South Pole, he went and spent time with Eskimos to figure out how they live in the cold. And he'd learned to wear loose clothing that and move very slowly. So, you know, you don't sweat and you don't get cold. He ate various different kinds of meat that he thought he could find along the way. So, he ate dolphins. If they were good for some sustenance, in case he became.. Ed: Are they? Hooman: He thought so, in case he became stranded. Yeah, so, if you're ever shipwrecked and you see a dolphin, you better hold on. Ed: Its Flipper. Hooman: But you see that obsessive preparedness that one leader has and the, I'm going to be okay, I'm just gonna go with it, type leadership. And sometimes that works great, right? A lot of people are naturally gifted and, well, 9 times out of 10. But it was interesting seeing that the story and the story talks about the day the diary entries of, of the two leaders and one of them is like, it's miserable. I can't believe our luck. The weather's terrible. It's really cold. Our, our snowmobiles froze, our ponies froze. And you think, well, you're going to the South Pole. It's going to be cold. Snowmobiles have never been proven, and yes, those engines are gonna crack and horses sweat. And then they get wet and then they die. So, none of this is bad luck. It's just preparedness, right? So, there's lots of stories of leadership that I think a tremendously poignant and, and show that leadership does have impacted to the leader, but also their teams. Um, and, and it's again, those leadership qualities of, of, of being prepared, being ready, having the vision being inspired, but also knowing what to measure, knowing what it is, you have to take care of what you've had to, sort of, do is your checklist being reliable and having the right group of people everyone says is a leader. You need to have the greatest people around you. And I read, I read a book called The Trillion Dollar Coach and one of the comments that, that made that really inspired me was, yes. Surround yourself with the greatest people. But what does that actually mean? Some people think that, you know, they're great. So, though clone themselves by hiring, you know, 10 people that look and act exactly like them. What, what this book was talking about was hire people that are humble, hire people that are willing to persevere, open to learning, self aware, kind and have integrity. And I thought, well, that, that actually that does to me certainly qualify as surrounding yourself with great people. So, those are some answers to your, to your question, which I probably took way too long to answer. Ed: No, I always think about just hiring people who are smarter than me. Hooman: I do that too, Which means I could hire most people. Ed: Yeah, you need.... Hooman: I need a higher boy. Ed: You're very humble, see? Eva: Well, I love to look at the CEO mindset as a playbook for leadership, and we will put a link to that in the show notes to the article that you wrote on The Conscious Investor as well as to the two books that you mentioned on the Podcast today. But lastly, I would love to ask you Hooman, what is next for you as a CEO? Ed: Great question.

Hooman: I would love to get my hands on another juicy turnaround. Um, I love being impactful. As I said, I love helping solve difficult problems. I love gathering people, motivating them around a common purpose, and then it feeling like we've all done something good together. So, it's interesting that in the last two weeks, with the situation of the Coronavirus, our economy is suddenly gone from day to night. And unfortunately for, for, for, for the world economy, I think a lot of businesses will, will suffer. So, I hope that I can be helpful. And I can, um, get some good results in a world where some really difficult situations are gonna rise. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Eva: Well, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much for your time and sharing your leadership expertise really with us. Hooman: Is it finished already? I'm having too much fun. Ed: Well, you haven't spoken in a pure British accent yet, so. Hooman: Would you like the high end one or the gangster one? Eva: High end, high end? Hooman: Well, actually we'll sign off now and say thank you. Eva: That's the Queen's English. Hooman: Yes. Eva: Thank you. Hooman: Thank you. Ed: Bye. Eva: Once again, it's clear that a business leader with good intentions can create an impressive social, environmental and ethical impact. There is always a way to put meaning behind the mission of a company, and we can all make a difference. Ed: You've taken the first step by listening to the Beyond Capital Podcast. Thanks for joining us. Don't forget to rate and review. And if you haven't yet, subscribe on your favorite Podcast platform. For more information, go to beyondcapitalpodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter at @EAStevens Eva: And follow me on Instagram at @ConsciousInvestor. Until next time. Ed: Bye, everyone.